Honda Amigo 1976

[Seb]

Hello!

I'm on holiday in France and I've just found my Mum's old Honda Amigo! It's from 1976 and it's done just over 9000 km. But It hasn't been used for 30 years, which it's spent in my grand-father's garage under a sheet all these years...

I would love to get this old little thing running again, but my understanding of engines is not the most advanced, and I have limited tools and time! I was wondering if I might be able to find some help over here I can't ride it anyway as it is not registered for road use, and my holiday will be finished before I can register it, but I thought it would be interesting to try to fix it, but if it gets too complicated I may have to give it a miss :(

I've been having a look at this thread so far but not had much luck.
http://www.4-stroke.net/forum/index.php/topic,6392.0.html

This is the behaviour I'm getting: when I crank it with the pedals, I get the nice characteristic engine sound, but it just doesn't seem to ignite and get going, however much I crank.

The last time it was used, 30 years ago, it worked beautifully. Now it's not working, but apart from some dust and dirt, it is in the same state as before, it's not even been moved! Am I naive to think that all the ignition timings and carburettor settings are still good even after all this time, because it hasn't been touched?  :

I have put in some fresh fuel and washed out the tank, and I checked the spark plug and it's making a nice blue spark!
What would you recommend I should try next? I have looked at your guide to take apart the carburettor, but I've never done something like this before, and my Dutch is not very good...at all :P

Also, there is a little switch on the carburettor which can turn up or down, which I am guessing is the choke - please do correct me if I am wrong - and I was unsure which position is on and off. I have tried it with both positions when trying to start the Amigo, but it didn't work with either.

Just to check - when I try to start it, I crank the pedals with the gear on position "on" and I turn the throttle handle while the Amigo is on its stand. I am not pressing on the switch under the left brake, which I believe is to let out the compression on the cylinder? Is this the correct way to start it?

Thanks a lot, and sorry for such a long post!
Seb

[Peter van Geelen]

Hi Seb!

Welcome and lets see how we can help you out!
I just came home from France from a brief holiday in Normandy!

Am I naive to think that all the ignition timings and carburettor settings are still good even after all this time, because it hasn't been touched?  :

Not at all! My PC50 that last ran in 1976 only needed some new fuel, a tap on a valve and a new sparkplug! After that, it took three steps to start it up!

I have put in some fresh fuel and washed out the tank, and I checked the spark plug and it's making a nice blue spark!
What would you recommend I should try next? I have looked at your guide to take apart the carburettor, but I've never done something like this before, and my Dutch is not very good...at all :P

Language matters not, just look closely at the photos and carefully take the carburetor apart. When done reassembling, turn the mixture screw all the way in and then 1 1/4 out. Clickedyclick!


Mixture screw is the left copper coloured one, idle screw is the right one

Also, there is a little switch on the carburettor which can turn up or down, which I am guessing is the choke - please do correct me if I am wrong - and I was unsure which position is on and off. I have tried it with both positions when trying to start the Amigo, but it didn't work with either.

It's indeed the choke! Up is ON, down is OFF. So to start, lift the lever up. It ofcourse depends a bit on the carburetor setting, but give it a shot.

Just to check - when I try to start it, I crank the pedals with the gear on position "on" and I turn the throttle handle while the Amigo is on its stand. I am not pressing on the switch under the left brake, which I believe is to let out the compression on the cylinder? Is this the correct way to start it?

That is the correct way, but to make cranking while cycling on the moped easier, you can use that little decompression lever. As soon as you have enough momentum, you release that lever and the compression is back on and the moped should start. You can also stop the engine with the decompression lever.

Thanks a lot, and sorry for such a long post!
Seb

You're welcome and ask any question you like, we'll try to help and reply as soon as possible

[Peter van Geelen]

Also a quick question, does it appear to have enough compression while starting the engine?

[Seb]

Hi Racing Duck!

Thanks a lot for your help I hope you liked Normandy, I'm in the south-west at the moment, there is more sun there  8-)

Also a quick question, does it appear to have enough compression while starting the engine?

I think so, because when I use the little decompression lever on the left handle bar, I can see a noticeable change when cranking: it's much easier to crank when I pull the lever! So there is definitely some compression, but is there any way of knowing if it is enough compression? I don't have a compression tester or any complicated tools! :(

Thanks for the translation link, I can't believe how good it is! Last time I used the translation tools was years ago at school, and at that time they were not very good, but I'm very impressed at what a good job it's done on your instructions! 

So I have taken the carburettor off the moped, and now it's sitting on my desk It's very, very dirty, I hope it's not so bad inside. I noticed that the rubber seals which were between the intake manifold and the carburettor are very dry and hard (because they are so old?), almost like they could snap in half - they are not flexible any more; I hope they're still okay!

I'm going to follow your translated instructions and try to take it apart, hopefully today. Then I will try to clean it. I have some gasoline for that, I assume I should only use that for the metal parts and not the rubber parts? (sorry if that is a silly question!  :oops: ) Do I just submerge them completely and leave them to soak for a while?

You're welcome and ask any question you like, we'll try to help and reply as soon as possible

Thank you very much!!
I'll send you an update as soon as I can.

[Seb]

Okay, here's a quick update on what I've done today:

Thanks to your helpful instructions, I was able to completely take apart and reassemble the carburettor. I wanted to clean it, but I wasn't completely sure what was the best way to go about doing this. Do I just soak everything in gasoline and clean with a brush? What about the rubber seals, can they be cleaned the same way? Do I need to dilute the gasoline or use it pure? Sorry for all the questions! :P

I found it very difficult to take off the little rubber tube which connected the carb to the air filter. It's become very rigid. The air filter side was fine when I took the carb off the moped yesterday, but the carb side was almost impossible! All the other rubber parts seem to be like this too, particularly the seals. Also, to be honest, it looked pretty clean in there, much better than what I was expecting! All the same, if you let me know what's the best way to clean it, I'll take it apart again tomorrow and give it a go. Some petrol leaked out when I was opening it so I think at least the petrol is getting to the carb okay!

Thank you!

[Peter van Geelen]

is there any way of knowing if it is enough compression? I don't have a compression tester or any complicated tools! :(

As long as it has a noticeable compression, it should be good ^^

Thanks for the translation link, I can't believe how good it is! Last time I used the translation tools was years ago at school, and at that time they were not very good, but I'm very impressed at what a good job it's done on your instructions! 

Weeeelllll, my car broke down in France and at a certain point google translate translated a broken clutch into something limping... so there is still plenty of fun in those automated translators haha

So I have taken the carburettor off the moped, and now it's sitting on my desk It's very, very dirty, I hope it's not so bad inside. I noticed that the rubber seals which were between the intake manifold and the carburettor are very dry and hard (because they are so old?), almost like they could snap in half - they are not flexible any more; I hope they're still okay!

That intake manifold can indeed become quite hard and warmth can do a lot of good. Warm water of a hairdryer should do the trick! And a dirty outside is okay, as long as it is sparkly clean on the inside

I'm going to follow your translated instructions and try to take it apart, hopefully today. Then I will try to clean it. I have some gasoline for that, I assume I should only use that for the metal parts and not the rubber parts? (sorry if that is a silly question!  :oops: ) Do I just submerge them completely and leave them to soak for a while?

I wanted to clean it, but I wasn't completely sure what was the best way to go about doing this. Do I just soak everything in gasoline and clean with a brush? What about the rubber seals, can they be cleaned the same way? Do I need to dilute the gasoline or use it pure? Sorry for all the questions!

All parts should be considered safe to expose to gasoline, thing is that Euro95 can be a bit harsh. Diesel-fuel works well too. Also to clean up your drive chain! Cleaning the parts can be done best with a brush indeed. Then you can also reach those tiny nooks and crannies.

I found it very difficult to take off the little rubber tube which connected the carb to the air filter. It's become very rigid. The air filter side was fine when I took the carb off the moped yesterday, but the carb side was almost impossible! All the other rubber parts seem to be like this too, particularly the seals. Also, to be honest, it looked pretty clean in there, much better than what I was expecting! All the same, if you let me know what's the best way to clean it, I'll take it apart again tomorrow and give it a go. Some petrol leaked out when I was opening it so I think at least the petrol is getting to the carb okay!

See above, warm water or a hair dryer to soften up the rubber should work nicely. Also, if you do not see a large pile of dirt there, just leave it on and clean it out with a piece of cloth

Thank you! Smiley

No prob, glad to help!

[Seb]

Hello!

I did a lot of work on the Amigo today, and got some interesting results. Firstly, I cleaned the carburettor with gasoline as I didn't have any diesel. Everything went well I'm pleased to say!

Then when that was all done, I cleaned the air filter, again, no problems there. Then I put everything back together and tried to start it but nothing happened. So I checked the fuel line from the tank to the carburettor and eventually saw that no gasoline was coming out of the little round valve which is attached to the tank, the one that lets the fuel into the fuel line and you can set to open or closed.

I took it off the Amigo and tried to clean it, it was full of a very thick, greasy black fluid. I managed to open the valve (with quite a bit of difficulty) and indeed the inside was full of this black stuff  :eek: I managed to get most of it out and unblock the little holes inside it with an air compressor, and I put it back together again and fit it back to the Amigo. I checked and gasoline is now going through the valve and reaching the carburettor!

I then tried starting it, and.. success!! It started! It was on for a few seconds before I stopped it with the decompression lever, because I noticed a problem: unfortunately, lots of gasoline is now leaking out of the fuel valve, even though I am very sure that I reassembled it as it was originally ??? I'm not sure why this is happening. I let all my gas leak into my container again so as not to waste it.

I'm very very pleased that it started, but this leak is quite concerning. Do you have any information about this valve? And if necessary, do you think it might be possible to get a new one from somewhere?

Thanks!

PS: I need to go back to the UK a few days for my work, I'm leaving tomorrow but I will be back on Friday. I'll be in touch!

[stekel]

Very good it started! A big step forwards.
I think you can buy a fuelvalve on the internet, they're not very expensive.
Maybe it is usefull to use one of those small filters that you can add in between your fuelline.
Good luck and keep s informed.

[Peter van Geelen]

Awesome, great to hear it's running again!

A complete cock (yes, that is the official english name for the valve ) has partnumber 16950-099-159 and is not available at cmsnl.com, but I found one for €7,95 at leertouwer.com which is a dutch part supplier. So they are still available for around that price.

Please have another look at your valve (just sticking to valve >.>) to see if you mounted the parts in the right order. From the top of my head it is as follows: valvecase, rubber seal, lever, bent ring (sometimes and meant to "unvibrate" the lever) and last the mounting ring.

Have a safe trip and hope to hear from you soon!

[stekel]

It still is a funny name for a valve...."cock" , but he is right.

[Seb]

Hello guys!

Thank you for your precious information, it's so helpful! I worked on the "cock" ( ) quite a lot today, and I got the Amigo to start again, which is great, but I am still having some problems with it.
I'm really tired as I got up at 4:00 for my flight this morning, so I'll write you an update as soon as I can, hopefully tomorrow!

Thanks again

[Peter van Geelen]

I can imagine you're tired since I had to get up at 3 this morning to bring my boss to the airport
Describe the problems as clear as possible and I'm sure it can be solved!

[Seb]

Hey guys! Thanks again for all your help

Maybe it is usefull to use one of those small filters that you can add in between your fuelline.

I still have the original filter, if you mean the one that goes on the long tube part which is attached to the fuel valve? I cleaned it with gasoline and it's looking good

Thanks for the part number for the fuel valve Racing Duck, I am sure this will come in handy. However, after a quick internet search I wasn't able to find a UK or Fr site which sells it :( I might have to use your website - and the translator again :P

I believe that this "cock" is the main source of my problems. Originally I had put the rubber seal between the lever and the bent ring, so I tried reassembling it as you suggested Racing Duck, but it was still leaking. I tried it in all the combinations of the rubber seal and lever and ring, and the leaking seemed worse with some than others, but was always present. I went to the bike shop and bought a similar seal, and replaced it, and it made no difference. The people at the bike shop say my seal looks okay. I even tried it with both seals (old and new) at the same time, one at the bottom as you described and one between the lever and the bent ring. This is how I have left it as it is the way in which it leaks the less. With the two seals, when I put it in the shut position, there is no leak, but in the open position, the gasoline leaks out of the top of the valve, where the lever comes out (gasoline comes out where it is supposed to okay). In the other combinations, it always leaks from the top, even with the valve in the shut position.

However I tried starting it again despite the leak, and it is starting with hardly any cranking, almost immediately I am going to try to go back to the bike shop and see if they have something similar that is compatible. If they don't, then I will try to order it from the website you gave me.

In other news, I noticed that the light turned on when the Amigo was running! Incredible!

[Peter van Geelen]

Odd that the robinet (clever french) keeps leaking. I'm off to the shed and lemme see if i have something for you.
Problem is the website i referred to is not always that reliable of which I heard a testimony this afternoon.

I shalt returneth soon

In other news, I noticed that the light turned on when the Amigo was running! Incredible!

Always a nice supprise! ^^

[Peter van Geelen]

I have found two used valves but they're not exactly the right type.
In case you want a new valve, I'll see what i can do here and send it to you.