Honda amigo wont start

[Kurt]

Hi All
I bought few weeks a go a Honda Amigo, i dont know the modelyear.
The seller told me that the bike works, but when he put the Gear to position "ON" engine stopps.
He unmounted the Cover on right side, so the seal was not useable, i made new seal, and putted normal regular motoroil in. We cleaned the carburetor and checke the spark,  also fine. The engine starte after long starting cycles, but it turned off after 10sec. But know it doenst startup anymore. In the Front lamp are cables which are not connected, ist any one of them for the ignition? Here is a Picture of the amigo
IMG]http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/8818/hondaamigo.jpg[/IMG]


Thank you for your help.
Regards from switzerland

[Edit: added the picture to the post]

[Peter van Geelen]

Grüetzi Kurt and welcome on our forum! I'm really glad to see that there are also Amigos in Switzerland, the last time I have been there, I only noticed one PC50

First some advices:

The gear
First of all, the gear you are talking about is meant to switch between engine power or pedal power and it's highly unrecommended to switch from "off" (pedal power) to "on" (engine power) while the engine is idling. When the engine configuration is correct, you should be able to start it with a simple push with the gear set to on.

Motor oil
Use simple mineral oil, the synthetic oil may be a tad to slippery and cleans your engine too good. This may sound weird, but with an old-timer, you want to have some residue in corners and slits because it actually assists in keeping the oil inside

Fuel
Use normal Octane 95 fuel with a lead additive, the lead is good for the cylinder wall and valves. Also use a filter, these old fuel tanks can rust on the inside.

First check:

First we are going to do a "dirty" check: When you try to start the engine or when it idles, do the breaker-points spark? (See below to find out where) If so, your capacitor is defect and needs replacements. If this is the case, let me know

Now we are going to set the engine to the manufacturers default settings:

Carburettor (A detailed disassembly manuals is to be found here)

Throttle needle
The throttle needle has three notches on the op and the ring that is clamped on there, should be on the 2nd position. This is the middle position.

Air Screw
You have to turn this screw clockwise until you cannot go any further. Then, you turn it 1 1/4 turn counter-clockwise.

Idle Screw
This has no default position, make sure it's just enough turned inwards so the engine keeps idling, but not so far that it will drive off on it's own. I'm sure there is a law against vehicles driving without a driver behind the wheel

Fuel Jet
No particular setting there, it just needs to be clean.

Ignition

You said you have a spark, so I'm not going into complicated wiring, we're now only trying to make it work properly.

Spark
The spark should be (preferably) blue, but yellow can do too, as long as it's a proper spark.

Spark plug
Never save on a new spark plug. They cost almost nothing and they make a great difference in performance. I strongly recommend a NGK C7HSA, which is the same for PC50. More info here.

Spark plug contact clearance
The clearance at the contacts should be 0.6mm

So that was the spark plug side, now we're going to the breaker points on the left side of the engine, behind the shiny metal plate, and inside there, behind the flywheel.

On the bottom of the shiny plate is a small notch which you can use to carefully pry it off. Behind there, you will see the flywheel and that has two markings on it. On the top/side you will see a T and a F.

Breaker points
First, inspect the breaker-points for wear. This is a bit hard, since your view is mostly obstructed by the flywheel, but when you push the breaker-point open, it should not look pitted or worn out.

Now, you should know that T stands for TOP and F stands for FIRE. T means that the piston is in it's top most position and this is also the widest opening point for the breaker points. F is the moment where the breaker points open. On that moment the spark plug will fire a spark.

It's not the easiest thing to do if you are a novice, but you have to visually inspect if the points open at the F moment. You can also test it with a multimeter if you have a third hand With this it is a bit of trial and error, once it works, you can play around with that setting to make it perform better.

The screw which loosens up the breaker point, in case you need to set them differently, is shown here with number 9.

Valves
We are now assuming that the valves are still in good order, we can address that later.
The valve clearing need to be set as follows: IN = 0.05 and OUT = 0.08
You probably do not have a 0.08 gauge, but just set it to 0.05 and loosen it up a tiiiiiny bit. This valve needs a bit more clearance due to heat expansion.

This concludes the resetting to manufacturers default.


Please let us know how things are going and if you encounter problems, we're always happy to help!

[Peter van Geelen]

Small addition for the idle and air / mixture screw.

[Kurt]

Helloo Da Racing Duck.
Yes i never seen before a amigo in switzerland, this one was the one and only i bought it directly.
Thank you a lot for your fast and very very detailed answer.

Ow, i made a mistake hope note too big, i used regular 95 Octane unleaded fuel, but i was thinking about the lead additive i was not sure. Could be that the Problem or should it start anyway?

I will check as soon as possible the to do list from you, it sounds very helpful.

[Peter van Geelen]

Using the 95 fuel is okay as long as you add the additive every so often. It does not affect the performance in its current state, so no worries there. I assume you have used "fresh" fuel because if you would have used a can of fuel that has been standing in the shed for a few years, then there is a big chance of the engine not running properly. (although some people think otherwise, but I personally think old fuel should be used for cleaning purposes haha)

Another thing you may consider looking at or replacing which is a very simple thing:
Depending on your inlet manifold, you have a gasket between the engine and the manifold and between the carburettor and the manifold. Any leakage there causes problems as well. The engine could suddenly run very fast or simply not start at all.

Also, we have workshop manuals on the website of http://www.4-stroke.net which you can download when being logged in.

And here is my PC50, http://4-stroke.net/en/photos-and-videos/photo-album/old-user-pictures/foxsan/grey-pc50 It's just one of my collection, I have another PC50, two P50's and a SS50. I have had a bunch of PF50 Amigos too, but I ran out of space. Talking about Honda madness

[Kurt]

your bike is cool, youre a honda fan, me to i have also a big motorbike and car from honda.
Yes i used ultra fresh fuel

On the manifodl si no leaking, just the fuel faucet is bit leaking, but it comes enough fuel to the carburettor.
After few start tries the spark gone a bit wet. Wel i dont have any experience i 4 stroke engines, as i was young we had only 2-stroke piaggio and Puch mopeds, and then 2-stroke scooters.

I didnt understood this part from your information:
First check:

First we are going to do a "dirty" check: When you try to start the engine or when it idles, do the breaker-points spark? (See below to find out where) If so, your capacitor is defect and needs replacements. If this is the case, let me know..

Could you explain that again please?


I hope the amigo will work soon, i will use it.


Thanks a lto again for your Help.

[Peter van Geelen]

After few start tries the spark gone a bit wet.

Ahaa, this may be that your fuel mixture is set too high. Go find the air / mixture screw and turn it clockwise until you cannot go any further, then turn it counter-clockwise (unscrew) it 1 1/4 turn. See if that helps

Could you explain that again please?

But ofcourse

First step: Remove the left cover. It's the (hopefully) shiny round cover which you can remove by using the notch on the bottom.

Second step: Remove the spark plug and stick it back into the connector to the sparkplug wire. Make sure that the spark plug touches the engine, so it it still able to spark properly.

Third step: Locate the breaker-points behind the flywheel.

Fourth step: Look through the flywheel while cranking / turning the pedals. The reason why you have to remove the spark plug is to have no compression which makes it turn easier.

If the breaker-points spark, then your capacitor (the small silvery tube behind the flywheel) is defect and needs replacement. If they do not spark, then all is well and your capacitor is in working order.

I hope this clears things up a little and if not, let me know

[stekel]

Hi Kurt.

Sometimes it will help to give your carburature a good cleaning job.
And also replace the breaker.
That will give you a good result.
Check also your sparkplug cable for cracks, maybe you have to replace it as well.
Keep us informed!
Stekel

[Kurt]

Thanks a lot again.
I have ordered new parts, new Spark new fuel switch and filter.
I guess at weekend we can check it.

I will keep you updated.

Thank you again all for the nice Help.

Hope for reanimating the amigo.

[Peter van Geelen]

Cool, I'm curious how it will go 

[Kurt]

So, the amigo Runs, changed the Plug, new fuelFilter and manifold gasket (paper)
But only with chocke now, here a video, without airfilter, but its loud anyway with the airfilter.
I Think we have to check the Air/Fuel settings etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3i9234mb9Kk

[Peter van Geelen]

YOU HAVE A LUGGAGE CARRIER!  :eek:

Thats quite rare, Kurt
I've watched the video but since I am at work I was unable to listen to the engine properly. Will do that tonight!

[Kurt]

You didnt saw the Luggage carrier on the Picture that i have posted at first?

I have to check few things, after that i can do it in to the traffic and hope to ride.

[Peter van Geelen]

You didnt saw the Luggage carrier on the Picture that i have posted at first?

lol, now you mention it 

[Kurt]

What could be the Problem for bad start, and it Runs only with choke.. Start only works with the stand.
Still issue with Air/Fuel? and the idle gas must be set very high otherwise it turns off....